Never a jw- That was going to be my next statement. Everyone on this site automatically try to make that calculation work. But like you stated, it is over a period of 60 years so that 60k witnesses maybe a total of 100k and if you go through the full list that the ARC sent to law enforcement, it did indicate not all were witnesses who were perpetuated, some were studying with witnesses, others were family members of witnesses and some the victim was a child of witnesses so the ARC counted those because the elders did no report those cases to law enforcement.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Scratchme:
I am sorry but you are actually wrong. Below is 3 cases including more recent cases that a fiduciary duty was not extended. Again I never said it was right but this is what the court has found.
Lewis v Bellows Falls Congregation 114-CV-205-JGM. (2015)
Holdings: The District Court, J. Garvan Murtha, J., held that:
1 alleged conduct by church did not create fiduciary relationship between church and congregant;
2 church allegedly had duty to provide reasonable supervision of its minister;
3 no special relationship existed between the church and its minister, as required to give rise to church's duty to control minister;
4 church had no duty to protect congregant; and
5 church had no separate duty to warn its congregants, distinct from a duty to protect.
Anderson v Watchtower M2004-01066-COA-R9-CV. (2005)
Barbara Anderson et al. Claimed that Moses v Diocese of Colorado, 863 P.2d 310 (Colo. 1993) applied to their case. The Appeals court found that the cited case of Moses: “Recognized that the relationship between a clergyman and parishioner was normally one involving rust and reliance, but further held that in order to be liable to breach a fiduciary duty, the superior party must ‘assume a duty to act in the dependent party’s best interest,’” And footnote 23 goes on “Cases examining a breach of fiduciary durty claim in the contest of a religiously-based relationship have made it clear that the clergy-parishioner relationship alone is not sufficient to establish a fiduciary duty. … (declining to find a per se fiduciary relationship between all clergy and their congregants and requiring “something more” to demonstrate a justifiable trust on one side and resulting superiority and influence on the other).”
Brian R v Watchtower CUM-98-531 (1999)
The appeals court ruled:
There does not exist a general obligation to protect others from harm not created by the actor. “The fact that the actor realizes or should realize that action on his part is necessary for another's aid or protection does not of itself impose upon him a duty to take such action.” RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 314 (1965). In other words, the mere fact that one individual knows that a third party is or could be dangerous to others does not make that individual responsible for controlling the third party or protecting others from the danger.5
Even with the emergence of expanded liability for nonfeasance, that principle has remained clear—in instances of “nonfeasance rather than misfeasance, and absent a special relationship, the law imposes no duty to act affirmatively to protect someone from danger unless the dangerous situation was created by the defendant.” Jackson v. Tedd–Lait Post No. 75, 1999 ME 26, ¶ 8, 723 A.2d 1220, 1221. Only when there is a “special relationship,” may the actor be found to have a common law duty to prevent harm to another caused by a third party.7 There is simply “no duty so to control the conduct of a third person as to prevent him from causing physical harm to another unless ... a special relation exists between the actor and the other which gives to the other a right to protection.” RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 315(b) (1965).8
We have described the salient elements of a fiduciary relationship as: (1) “the actual placing of trust and confidence in fact by one party in another,” and (2) “a great disparity of position and influence between the parties” at issue. Morris v. Resolution Trust Corp., 622 A.2d 708, 712 (Me.1993). A fiduciary relationship has been found to exist in several categories of relationship, including business partners, see Rosenthal v. Rosenthal, 543 A.2d 348, 352 (Me.1988), families engaged in financial transactions, see Estate of Campbell, 1997 ME 212, ¶ 9, 704 A.2d 329, 331–32, and corporate relationships, see Moore v. Maine Indus. Servs., Inc., 645 A.2d 626, 628 (Me.1994); Webber v. Webber Oil Co., 495 A.2d 1215, 1224–25 (Me.1985).
We have noted, however, that a “general allegation of a confidential relationship is not a sufficient basis for establishing the existence of one.” Ruebsamen v. Maddocks, 340 A.2d 31, 35 (Me.1975). As with any duty, its existence must be informed by “the hand of history, our ideals of morals and justice, the convenience of administration of the rule, and our social ideas as to where the loss should fall.” Trusiani, 538 A.2d at 261. Although a fiduciary duty may be based on “moral, social, domestic, or [ ] merely personal [duties],” Ruebsamen, 340 A.2d at 34, it does not arise merely because of the existence of kinship, friendship, business relationships, or organizational relationships. A fiduciary duty will be found to exist, as a matter of law, only in circumstances where the law will recognize both the disparate positions of the parties and a reasonable basis for the placement of trust and confidence in the superior party in the context of specific events at issue.10 A court, therefore, must have before it specific facts regarding the nature of the relationship that is alleged to have given rise to a fiduciary duty in order to determine whether a duty may exist at law.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw:
If you feel that there is a difference between a strawman and strawman arguments that is your opinion. But my question and ability to defend my argument still stands. Explain exactly what you think is a strawman argument. Explain with facts.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw:
You're calling me a strawman so like I asked. Please point out a factual thing that I have said that is wrong. Not a spelling or a grammar issue, a factual statement that I made that is wrong. And please present your argument with facts and not your opinion or supposition.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Spoletta: Nowhere in my statements have I said that it is not immoral or unethical. I have said the opposite, that morally yes it is despicable and they should be prosecuted. But just because something we feel is immoral doesn't mean it is against the law. My statement was, that we as a society of general people have to get the laws changed so that children are protected. That includes raising age of consent laws in nations and even states that have staggering low ages of consent. Police and other authority can only prosecute people for actual crimes not for perceived or moral crimes. And also to remove priest-penitent privilege when it comes to sexual child abuse. Because, no matter what some people on here believes there are judges who view elder communication as privileged communication.
As an example in the Conti case. Irwin Zalkin asked Kendrick's former wife and former step-daughter if she thought it was a privileged communication. Why would Mr. Zalkin ask this question? Because it could be construed that the confession was transmitted in a priest-penitent privileged communication, which as the law allowed at that time did not have to be reported to the police.
Again just because I don't agree with everyone here that lawsuits are the best way to end this, I get trashed for my opinion. I believe that actual legislation is more beneficial than trying to fight this case after case that takes years upon years and there is no guarantee of a win. In fact even the Conti case the California Appellate court only ruled on negligence because they allowed her to go in service with Kendrick, not for anything else.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. I am sorry that I misspelled toe to toe, I know that you type correctly 100% of the time. Tell me something that I have stated wrong? Please go ahead and give actual evidence that what I said was wrong. An actual fact and not your opinion.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw. I am not an apologist. I am very educated. And just because you go straight to emotion for your argument and I go for facts prove that. You want to go tow to tow on intelligence on this matter, I will take you on. I had no intention of arguing with anyone on this. I actually wanted to get advice on how to help get laws changed but for you. I will go up against you any time you want.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
No a strawman doesn't want change. I have been making the statement from the first part of this thread. It is more important to get legislatures to change the laws of the land, that includes any priest-penitent privilege and to raise the age of consent. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean that I am a straw man. Just because I know the law is not so cut and dry doesn't mean it either. Just because I don't cow-tow to some of you who feel that Watchtower and/or all religion should be sacked that I am a straw man. If I bring up actual facts doesn't make me false, it is that I think not just on emotion, which is not what the law is, but on logic and facts.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Yes a moral law is important, but moral law is not a law. So let's take this senario. Let's say that someone in Austria, where the age of consent is 14. So lets say a 25-year-old man has sex with a 14-year-old. According to Austria law that man has not committed a crime. Is that 25 year old disgusting for having sex with a 14-year-old? Of course he is. But has he violated anything that would get him sent to jail? No. So let's say I am the parent of this young girl, and I go and beat the living crap out of the guy, which I would be morally acceptable to do, but legally I could be charged with a crime because I assaulted that man. Now I am not talking about rape, but in the nation of Austria they say that it is possible for a 14 year old to consent to sexual activity. Now lets say that the elders tell everyone that, that man is a criminial because he had sex with a 14-year-old, would that be true, no it wouldn't. Would most people agree that he is a scum bag, yes, but he is not a criminal.
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207
Honest Questions About Child Abuse
by Richard Oliver ini have two honest questions for everyone here.
i understand that most here want retribution from the courts against watchtower for child abuse allegations.
but let us take away the instances where someone was accused of child abuse and then later put back into a position of authority, such as an elder or an ms. let us just take the cases where a regular publisher or even an appointed person, with no previous accusation of child abuse has come up against that person.
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Richard Oliver
Did I say if there were no reporting laws? But in some countries, like I explained earlier, where the age of consent is low. If they haven't broken a law what am I supposed to report to the police?